69: Shame Storm (Episode 69)

In this Episode

This week on the podcast, Shaunna and Lisa discuss the “shame storm” and the differences between shame and guilt. A question they try to answer is whether shame is actually the root of white people’s inaction around racism instead of guilt. They draw on Brené Brown’s work on shame (although, admittedly neither have read her books!) and try to tease apart the differences. They contemplate the notion that guilt may actually be a useful feeling for white people. This is a different perspective to how they usually understand white guilt as a tool of defensiveness. However, the difference isn’t necessarily that straightforward and neither Shaunna or Lisa have definitive answers. They also discuss that if guilt is actually a tool of action, then we should use guilt to see the struggles of all identity groups. Just because a person may belong to an oppressed group, doesn’t absolve them of advocating for others’ rights as well. Questions on survival strategies and racial exhaustion are also in the mix, as the [un]phased co-hosts try to understand the influence of guilt and shame on our capacity to build lasting change.

Mentions in the pod:

• Brene Brown Ted Talk on shame
• Brene Brown website
• From the Hell Yeah/Hell Naw segment: 51% increases in ER visits in 2021 for adolescent girls and suicide attempts (NYT)

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